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Terms of service

1. ACCEPTANCE OF TERMS

Welcome to Collective2. Collective2 provides its service to you, subject to the following Terms of Service ("TOS"), which may be updated by us from time to time without notice to you. You can review the most current version of the TOS at any time at: http://collective2.com/static/info/termsofservice.htm

In addition, when using particular Collective2 services, you shall be subject to any posted guidelines or rules applicable to such services which may be posted from time to time. All such guidelines or rules (including but not limited to our Spam Policy) are hereby incorporated by reference into the TOS.

2. DESCRIPTION OF SERVICE

Collective2 allows customers to search for and purchase trading advice, trading systems, and trading newsletters. In addition, Collective2 allows vendors of these products to find new customers and to distribute material to them. You also understand and agree that the Service may include advertisements and that these advertisements may be necessary for Collective2 to provide the Service. You also understand and agree that the service may include certain communications from Collective2, such as service announcements and administrative messages, and that these communications are considered part of Collective2 membership and you will not be able to opt out of receiving them. Unless explicitly stated otherwise, any new features that augment or enhance the current Service, including the release of new Collective2 properties, shall be subject to the TOS. You understand and agree that the Service is provided "AS-IS" and that Collective2 assumes no responsibility for the timeliness, deletion, mis-delivery or failure to store any user communications or personalization settings.

You are responsible for obtaining access to the Service and that access may involve third party fees (such as Internet service provider or airtime charges). You are responsible for those fees, including those fees associated with the display or delivery of advertisements. In addition, you must provide and are responsible for all equipment necessary to access the Service.

2A. NO FEE FOR PEOPLE SEARCHING FOR TRADING SYSTEMS.

Collective2 does not charge any fees to people who want to become members of the site, nor does it charge any fees to people who want to use the site to find trading systems. Once a user finds a system to which he wants to subscribe, the user will be charged a price which is set by the trading-system creator. 

2B. FEE FOR SELLING TRADING ADVICE.

If you provide trading advice through Collective2 and you successfully sell this advice, or you sell a subscription to your trading system through Collective2, or you conduct a sale through Collective2 such that Collective2 processes the transaction on your behalf, then Collective2 charges a fee for each sale we conduct on your behalf. That fee is listed below in "Fee schedule."

The way we collect this fee is as follow. Each month, on a monthly cycle, we calculate how much we have collected on your behalf for transactions that are 45 days or older. We deduct a percentage of this amount as our fee, and we remit the rest back to you. We do not remove additional amounts for the standard credit card processing "discount rate."

Because of the risk of charge-backs, refunds, and unsatisfied customers, we remit your funds only after a transaction is 45 days old. However, we do remit on a monthly cycle. This means, essentially, that your first remittance from us may take over a month to arrive, but once you receive your first remittance, you will receive new remittances each month.

Fee schedule. Our fee is 30% of the transaction amount.

Refunds and exceptional charges. If your subscriber is unhappy and demands a refund of fees paid to us on your behalf, or if an unhappy customer calls his bank and as a result we are charged a special fee - called a "chargeback" in credit card jargon - then we will remove that fee from your next remittance amount or any future remittance amount until this fee has been repaid. Thus we encourage you, as a system vendor, to strive to satisfy your subscriber customers. 

Collective2 is charged by its merchant processing service a percentage of each transaction amount, even if the amount is eventually refunded. We are also charged a percentage of the refund amount. Thus, we pass these costs along to you. If your customers demands and receives a refund, we will charge you a refund fee based on the initial transaction amount. That refund fee is 7.5% of the initial charge. We therefore encourage you to provide excellent customer service to your subscribers so that your refunds are kept to a minimum. All refunds and fees may be charged against current or future remittances that we owe you. If the amount of refunds that we pay out on your behalf exceeds the fees that we collect on your behalf, we may at our discretion bill your credit card for the amount we are unable to debit from your Collective2 account in order to cover the cost of any refunds we have paid to your customers.

2C. How we handle your customers' asking for refunds. It is our policy to refund money to system subscribers when they express unhappiness. Indeed, we are often forced to do so by our credit card processing companies and associated banks. Any amount refunded to your subscribers will be deducted from future remittance cycles. If you do not have a large enough balance to cover the refund amount and associated fees, then you agree that Collective2 will charge your credit card for the amount we are owed but which your balance at Collective2 does not cover.

2D. Credit risk. Finally, we are not in the business of bearing exceptional credit card risk on your behalf. Therefore, if your subscription amounts become large enough that we would bear a risk of substantial loss should your system suddenly stop performing, or if your system stops performing suddenly, we reserve the right to withhold any amount of your remittance until we deem that the risk of large customer refunds has passed. We may not hold any amount longer than 95 days after the transaction date.

2E. Remittance of funds. We remit your money electronically through PayPal or other electronic transfer methods. If you live in a country where PayPal is unavailable, we will negotiate an alternative payment method for you. There may be an additional fee for these non-standard or non-electronic payment methods. You are responsible for all fees charged to you by Paypal or the alternate payment mechanism.

2F. Listing Fees. In addition, we charge an Listing Fee for each trading system you offer and maintain on the Collective2 site. You will have a chance to experiment with the Collective2 site for a limited period of time before we ask you to pay the Listing Fee. You may choose not to pay the Listing Fee, in which case you will not be able to maintain your system on Collective2. We encourage vendors to maintain multiple trading systems on Collective2. Thus, we charge one amount for the first system you add, and a reduced amount for subsequent systems added within three months of the first system. Our Listing Fee schedule is found on our prices page.

Listing Fees are paid up-front, and are non-refundable. This means that even if you stop maintaining your trading system, stop using our Web site, or "kill" your trading system, no portion of the listing fee is refundable. You may not transfer your listing fee from one system to another.

 

3. YOUR OBLIGATIONS

3A. SYSTEM DEVELOPERS: YOUR OBLIGATION NOT TO SOLICIT Collective2 CUSTOMERS AWAY FROM Collective2

Trade Integration LLC spends a large amount of money marketing to consumers and attracting them to the site, where they can subscribe to trading systems like yours and thus pay you money. When they pay you, Collective2 charges you a fee for our service. From our perspective, Collective2 invests a large amount of cash up front each time we attract a new customer to your trading system, and we hope to make it back (and eventually a profit) over the customer's lifetime.

There is a natural temptation for system vendors to use Collective2 to find new customers (and to allow Collective2 to bear the cost of customer acquisition), but then to "transition" the customer to an alternate venue where he can pay you directly, without your incurring Collective2 fees. We prohibit this. What does this mean, concretely? First, you are welcome to offer your trading system on sites other than Collective2. We also welcome you to run your own Web site independently of Collective2. That said, if you pursue either of those strategies, we ask you not to overtly or implicitly solicit Collective2 customers and ask them to move their subscriptions  to alternative platforms, where subscriptions or payments would be processed outside of Collective2's purview. Second, if you do offer your system elsewhere, you may not offer it for a lower price at another venue (or, alternatively, you may not tack on a fee for Collective2 subscribers). Third, while you are welcome to sell your system from as many Web sites or through as many channels as you like, we ask that you do not advertise those other channels from the Collective2 Web site. That means, if you run a Web site independent of Collective2, and your Web site allows subscriptions or offers services outside of Collective2 (such as "a managed account") you may not include a link to that Web site, or implicitly advertise that Web site anywhere on Collective2 (including your system description on Collective2, your forums on Collective2, or public/private messages to Collective2 subscribers). Any of these activities are either subtle or overt ways to encourage customers found for you by Collective2 to migrate away from Collective2. 

The purpose of these rules is to allow you to market to customers in as many places as you like, and to give you freedom to  to reach as many customers as you possibly can... but to require that you be fair and not "poach" customers acquired by Collective2 on your behalf. If you have any questions about this, please contact us by email so that we can avoid misunderstandings and conflict. Our goal is to make Collective2 so great that you will have little desire to offer your trading system elsewhere. But, should you desire to offer your system elsewhere, we will certainly allow this, providing the playing field is fair.

If you violate any of these provisions, we may temporarily or permanently suspend your account, prevent your system from being viewed by the public, or take whatever steps we deem necessary to protect the viability of Collective2. We will not issue any refunds - in whole or in part - if we suspend your system for violation of these Terms of Service.

Summary of outside link requirements
No links to an outside Web site if that site offers subscriptions to be paid outside of Collective2 mechanisms
No links to an outside Web site if that site offers managed accounts (or something similar)
No links to an outside Web site if that site offers trading and execution services outside of the Collective2 platform

 

3B. OTHER COMPETITIVE SOLICITATION PROHIBITED

(i.e. "No brokers soliciting system vendors")

Regardless of whether you are a system developer or not, we prohibit Collective2 users from using the Collective2 platform to solicit Collective2 customers to competitive services. This includes (but is not limited to) soliciting system vendors to make their systems available at brokers or trading services outside the Collective2 platform. If you violate this policy, Collective2 reserves the right to take legal action to recover lost revenues you have stolen from us, plus applicable damages. By using Collective2, you specifically acknowledge that you agree to this prohibition. Brokers should instead contact us about mutually beneficial partnerships.

3C. GENERAL REGISTRATION OBLIGATIONS

In consideration of your use of the Service, you agree to: (a) provide true, accurate, current and complete information about yourself as prompted by the Service's registration form (such information being the "Subscription Form") and (b) maintain and promptly update the Registration Data to keep it true, accurate, current and complete. If you provide any information that is untrue, inaccurate, not current or incomplete, or Collective2 has reasonable grounds to suspect that such information is untrue, inaccurate, not current or incomplete, Collective2 has the right to suspend or terminate your account and refuse any and all current or future use of the Service (or any portion thereof). 

4. TRADE INTEGRATION LLC's PRIVACY POLICY

Registration Data and certain other information about you is subject to our Privacy Policy. For more information, see our full privacy policy at http://collective2.com/docs/privacy.

5. MEMBER ACCOUNT, PASSWORD AND SECURITY

You will receive a password and account designation upon completing the Service's registration process. You are responsible for maintaining the confidentiality of the password and account, and are fully responsible for all activities that occur under your password or account. You agree to (a) immediately notify Collective2 of any unauthorized use of your password or account or any other breach of security, and (b) ensure that you exit from your account at the end of each session. Collective2 cannot and will not be liable for any loss or damage arising from your failure to comply with this Section 5.

6. MEMBER CONDUCT

You understand that all information, data, text, software, music, sound, photographs, graphics, video, messages or other materials ("Content"), whether publicly posted or privately transmitted, are the sole responsibility of the person from which such Content originated. This means that you, and not Collective2, are entirely responsible for all Content that you upload, post, email, transmit or otherwise make available via the Service. Collective2 does not control the Content posted via the Service and, as such, does not guarantee the accuracy, integrity or quality of such Content. You understand that by using the Service, you may be exposed to Content that is offensive, indecent or objectionable. Under no circumstances will Collective2 be liable in any way for any Content, including, but not limited to, for any errors or omissions in any Content, or for any loss or damage of any kind incurred as a result of the use of any Content posted, emailed, transmitted or otherwise made available via the Service.

You agree to not use the Service to intentionally or unintentionally violate any applicable local, state, national or international law, including, but not limited to, regulations promulgated by the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission, the Commodity Futures Trading Commission (CFTC), any rules of any national or other securities exchange, including, without limitation, the New York Stock Exchange, the American Stock Exchange or the NASDAQ, and any regulations having the force of law.

You acknowledge that Collective2 does not pre-screen Content, but that Collective2 and its designees shall have the right (but not the obligation) in their sole discretion to refuse or move any Content that is available via the Service. Without limiting the foregoing, Collective2 and its designees shall have the right to remove any Content that violates the TOS or is otherwise objectionable. You agree that you must evaluate, and bear all risks associated with, the use of any Content, including any reliance on the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of such Content.

You acknowledge and agree that Collective2 may preserve Content and may also disclose Content if required to do so by law or in the good faith belief that such preservation or disclosure is reasonably necessary to: (a) comply with legal process; (b) enforce the TOS; (c) respond to claims that any Content violates the rights of third-parties; or (d) protect the rights, property, or personal safety of Collective2, its users and the public.

You understand that the technical processing and transmission of the Service, including your Content, may involve (a) transmissions over various networks; and (b) changes to conform and adapt to technical requirements of connecting networks or devices.

7. SPECIAL ADMONITIONS FOR INTERNATIONAL USE

Recognizing the global nature of the Internet, you agree to comply with all local rules regarding online conduct and acceptable Content. Specifically, you agree to comply with all applicable laws regarding the transmission of technical data exported from the United States or the country in which you reside.

8. CONTENT SUBMITTED OR MADE AVAILABLE FOR INCLUSION ON THE SERVICE

Collective2 does not claim ownership of Content you submit or make available for inclusion on the Service. However, with respect to Content you submit or make available for inclusion on publicly accessible or subscriber-accessible areas of the Service, you grant Collective2 a non-exclusive, royalty free license to  display such information. In addition, you agree to grant to Collective2 LLC a free subscription to your trading advice. Once you publish a trading signal through Collective2, or publish trading commentary, Collective2 shall be allowed to make this information available within its Web site or through any other means, in perpetuity.

By using the site, you specifically acknowledge that you understand that Collective2 may publicly evaluate your systems, on its Web sites or through related marketing channels, including emails, social media, and printed material; and that the methods used to evaluate your systems and trading style may include statistical analysis and/or personal judgements of officers, staff, and contractors; and that Collective2, its officers, staff, or contractors may comment and pass judgement on the fitness or quality of your system or the material you submit, including (but not limited to) your system methodology, trading record, or any other written or electronic media related to your system. In other words: remember this is a public Web site, and by submitting your system to this Web site, you accept that the trading system and/or you, the system manager, and/or your trading style, may be publicly evaluated.

9. INDEMNITY

You agree to indemnify and hold Collective2, and its subsidiaries, affiliates, officers, agents, and employees, harmless from any claim or demand, including reasonable attorneys' fees, made by any third party due to or arising out of Content you submit, post, transmit or make available through the Service, your use of the Service, your connection to the Service, your violation of the TOS, or your violation of any rights of another.

9b. NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR RATINGS, REVIEWS, OR TRADE RECORD, WHICH ARE MADE PUBLIC

If you manage a trading system on Collective2, you agree that the system can be monitored, and its performance rated in any way seen fit by Collective2. These ratings may be published, or made publicly available. The general public may publish reviews of your system. While we try our best to make ratings, scores, and reviews as accurate and useful as possible, it is possible that we may issue incorrect ratings, and that review not generated by Collective2 may be flawed. Therefore you agree to hold harmless Collective2 and its affiliates with regard to these ratings and reviews, including the "Collective2 Rating" assigned to each person who trades using Collective2, regardless of whether the rating is calculated accurately or inaccurately.

 

10. NO RESALE OF SERVICE, NO RESALE OF SUBSCRIPTION

You agree not to reproduce, duplicate, copy, sell, resell or exploit for any commercial purposes, any portion of the Service, use of the Service, or access to the Service. If you subscribe to a trading system, you agree not to forward its contents, publicly distribute them, or resell them without permission of the trading system provider.

11. GENERAL PRACTICES REGARDING USE AND STORAGE

You acknowledge that Collective2 may establish general practices and limits concerning use of the Service, including without limitation the maximum number of days that email messages, message board postings or other uploaded Content will be retained by the Service, the maximum number of email messages that may be sent from or received by an account on the Service, the maximum size of any email message that may be sent from or received by an account on the Service, the maximum disk space that will be allotted on Collective2's servers on your behalf, and the maximum number of times (and the maximum duration for which) you may access the Service in a given period of time. You agree that Collective2 has no responsibility or liability for the deletion or failure to store any messages and other communications or other Content maintained or transmitted by the Service. You acknowledge that Collective2 reserves the right to log off accounts that are inactive for an extended period of time. You further acknowledge that Collective2 reserves the right to change these general practices and limits at any time, in its sole discretion, with or without notice.

12. MODIFICATIONS TO SERVICE

Collective2 reserves the right at any time and from time to time to modify or discontinue, temporarily or permanently, the Service (or any part thereof) with or without notice. You agree that Collective2 shall not be liable to you or to any third party for any modification, suspension or discontinuance of the Service.

13. TERMINATION

You agree that Collective2 may, under certain circumstances and without prior notice, immediately terminate your Collective2 account and access to the Service. Cause for such termination shall include, but not be limited to, (a) breaches or violations of the TOS or other incorporated agreements or guidelines, (b) requests by law enforcement or other government agencies, (c) a request by you (self-initiated account deletions), (d) discontinuance or material modification to the Service (or any part thereof), (e) unexpected technical issues or problems, and (f) extended periods of inactivity. 

 

14. LINKS

The Service may provide links to other World Wide Web sites or resources. Because Collective2 has no control over such sites and resources, you acknowledge and agree that Collective2 is not responsible for the availability of such external sites or resources, and does not endorse and is not responsible or liable for any Content, advertising, products, or other materials on or available from such sites or resources. You further acknowledge and agree that Collective2 shall not be responsible or liable, directly or indirectly, for any damage or loss caused or alleged to be caused by or in connection with use of or reliance on any such Content, goods or services available on or through any such site or resource.

15. TRADE INTEGRATION LLC'S PROPRIETARY RIGHTS

You acknowledge and agree that the Service and any necessary software used in connection with the Service ("Software") contain proprietary and confidential information that is protected by applicable intellectual property and other laws. You further acknowledge and agree that Content presented to you through the Service is protected by copyrights, trademarks, service marks, patents or other proprietary rights and laws. Except as expressly authorized by Collective2 or the trading system vendors, you agree not to modify, rent, lease, loan, sell, distribute or create derivative works based on the Service or the material published through the Service, in whole or in part.

You agree not to access the Service by any means other than through the interface that is provided by Collective2 for use in accessing the Service.

16. DISCLAIMER OF WARRANTIES

YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT:

a. YOUR USE OF THE SERVICE IS AT YOUR SOLE RISK. THE SERVICE IS PROVIDED ON AN "AS IS" AND "AS AVAILABLE" BASIS. TRADE INTEGRATION LLC EXPRESSLY DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES OF ANY KIND, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY, FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND NON-INFRINGEMENT.
b. TRADE INTEGRATION LLC MAKES NO WARRANTY THAT (i) THE SERVICE WILL MEET YOUR REQUIREMENTS, (ii) THE SERVICE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED, TIMELY, SECURE, OR ERROR-FREE, (iii) THE RESULTS THAT MAY BE OBTAINED FROM THE USE OF THE SERVICE WILL BE ACCURATE OR RELIABLE, (iv) THE QUALITY OF ANY PRODUCTS, SERVICES, INFORMATION, OR OTHER MATERIAL PURCHASED OR OBTAINED BY YOU THROUGH THE SERVICE WILL MEET YOUR EXPECTATIONS, AND (V) ANY ERRORS IN THE SOFTWARE WILL BE CORRECTED.
c. ANY MATERIAL DOWNLOADED OR OTHERWISE OBTAINED THROUGH THE USE OF THE SERVICE IS DONE AT YOUR OWN DISCRETION AND RISK AND THAT YOU WILL BE SOLELY RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY DAMAGE TO YOUR COMPUTER SYSTEM OR LOSS OF DATA THAT RESULTS FROM THE DOWNLOAD OF ANY SUCH MATERIAL.
d. NO ADVICE OR INFORMATION, WHETHER ORAL OR WRITTEN, OBTAINED BY YOU FROM TRADE INTEGRATION LLC OR THROUGH OR FROM THE SERVICE SHALL CREATE ANY WARRANTY NOT EXPRESSLY STATED IN THE TOS.

17. LIMITATION OF LIABILITY

YOU EXPRESSLY UNDERSTAND AND AGREE THAT TRADE INTEGRATION LLC SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR ANY DIRECT, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, SPECIAL, CONSEQUENTIAL OR EXEMPLARY DAMAGES, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO, DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF PROFITS, GOODWILL, USE, DATA OR OTHER INTANGIBLE LOSSES (EVEN IF TRADE INTEGRATION LLC HAS BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES), RESULTING FROM: (i) THE USE OR THE INABILITY TO USE THE SERVICE; (ii) THE COST OF PROCUREMENT OF SUBSTITUTE GOODS AND SERVICES RESULTING FROM ANY GOODS, DATA, INFORMATION OR SERVICES PURCHASED OR OBTAINED OR MESSAGES RECEIVED OR TRANSACTIONS ENTERED INTO THROUGH OR FROM THE SERVICE; (iii) UNAUTHORIZED ACCESS TO OR ALTERATION OF YOUR TRANSMISSIONS OR DATA; (iv) STATEMENTS OR CONDUCT OF ANY THIRD PARTY ON THE SERVICE; OR (v) ANY OTHER MATTER RELATING TO THE SERVICE.

18. EXCLUSIONS AND LIMITATIONS

SOME JURISDICTIONS DO NOT ALLOW THE EXCLUSION OF CERTAIN WARRANTIES OR THE LIMITATION OR EXCLUSION OF LIABILITY FOR INCIDENTAL OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES. ACCORDINGLY, SOME OF THE ABOVE LIMITATIONS OF SECTIONS 17 AND 18 MAY NOT APPLY TO YOU.

19. SPECIAL ADMONITION FOR PEOPLE RELYING ON THE TRADING ADVICE OF OTHERS

The phrase "Let the investor beware" is important to remember. The Service is provided for informational purposes only, and no Content included in the Service is intended to be the sole or primary means of making decisions for trading or investing purposes. Collective2 shall not be responsible or liable for the accuracy, usefulness or availability of any information transmitted or made available via the Service, and shall not be responsible or liable for any trading or investment decisions made based on such information.

20. NOTICE

Notices to you may be made via either email or regular mail. The Service may also provide notices of changes to the TOS or other matters by displaying notices or links to notices to you generally on the Service.

21. TRADEMARK INFORMATION

Collective2 is a trademark of Collective2 LLC. Without Collective2's prior permission, you agree not to display or use the Collective2 mark.

22. COPYRIGHTS

Collective2 respects the intellectual property of others, and we ask our users to do the same. If you believe that your work has been copied in a way that constitutes copyright infringement, or your intellectual property rights have been otherwise violated, please alert Collective2 about this.

23. CONSENT TO ELECTRONIC NOTIFICATION

By using this site, you agree to receive all legal and business notifications through email delivered to the email address for you which we have on record.

24. ARBITRATION

In the event of any dispute between you and Collective2 LLC, or you and Trade Integration LLC, relating to this Agreement, the parties hereto agree that such dispute shall be resolved by binding arbitration in accordance with the commercial arbitration rules of the American Arbitration Association and judgment upon the award rendered by the arbitrator(s) may be entered in any court of competent jurisdiction. The prevailing party in the arbitration proceeding shall be entitled to recover its expenses, including the costs of the arbitration proceeding and reasonable attorneys' fees. Arbitration shall be held within Westchester County, New York, USA, unless the parties agree to an alternative location.

25. MISCELLANEOUS

This Agreement is governed by the laws of the State of New York, without regard to principles of conflicts of laws. Subject to Section 24, any legal action or proceeding relating to this Agreement shall be instituted in a state or federal court in Westchester County, New York, and each party hereto hereby submits to the personal jurisdiction of such courts. This Agreement supersedes any and all prior agreements between the parties hereto and constitutes the entire agreement between User and Collective2, with respect to the subject matter hereof. The failure of Collective2 to exercise or enforce any right conferred upon it by this Agreement shall not be deemed to be a waiver of any such right or operate so as to bar the exercise or enforcement thereof at any time or times thereafter. This Agreement may be modified, supplemented or otherwise amended at any time by Collective2 in its discretion. User's use of Collective2 following notice of any such amendment shall constitute User's acceptance of the amended Agreement. This Agreement is binding upon, and shall inure to the benefit of, the parties and their respective administrators, legal representatives, successors, and permitted assigns. If any provision hereof is held by a court of competent jurisdiction to be contrary to law, void or otherwise unenforceable, such provision shall be enforced to the extent possible in order to effect the intention of the parties and the remainder of this Agreement shall remain in full force and effect. References to sections are to sections of this Agreement, unless otherwise indicated. Section headings are inserted for convenience of reference only and shall not affect the construction of this Agreement. The singular number shall include the plural, and vice versa. Any use of the word "including" will be interpreted to mean "including, but not limited to," unless otherwise indicated.